How to overcome sales objections with Value Selling

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: welcome, folks.

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: We shall start in about 30 s.

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: Thanks for joining

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: alright folks rolling in.

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: Welcome in, guys.

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: All right. Well, let’s get rolling. It’s 201 Eastern.

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I want to welcome everybody to media flies. Value webinar.

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: how to overcome Sales Objections with value.

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: My name is Dan six-smith. I am the Svp of value at Mediafly. I’ll be the host and moderator

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: of this great session today. We’ve got 2 outstanding guests here, 2 experts in the field of value. We’ve got Julie Thomas, who is the President and CEO of value selling associates. And we’ve got Jeff Collins, who is the global head of value consulting for Cooper the Fast Growing Technology Company, and I’ll turn it over to each of them to do a little quick. Intro

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: and then we’ll dive in. So, Julie, you first welcome.

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Julie Thomas: Good morning. It’s a pleasure to be here this morning with Dan and Jeff. As Dan mentioned. My name is Julie and I’m with value selling associates. And we work with companies that are trying to transition from maybe pushing product or a product centric approach

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Julie Thomas: to a value oriented solution and or approach. And what that means is they want to develop the skills and behaviors and their teams to focus on identifying business outcomes that they can quantify as a result of implementing their products and services.

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Julie Thomas: So we help them kinda flip the script a little bit if you will in how they approach opportunities, how they qualify, advance, and close those opportunities. And I’m thrilled to be here today to speak with all of you.

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: Thanks so much, Julie Jeff.

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Jeff Collins: Welcome. Yeah, thanks. Thanks very much. Dan.

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Jeff Collins: I. I am fortunate enough to lead a team of global consultants who are truly experts in in understanding, quantifying

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Jeff Collins: potential value for coupa’s customers. And then we also work with our existing customers, quantify real life value. So really understanding the entire N. 10 customer lifecycle journey.

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Jeff Collins: came to Cupa about 9 years ago. For those of you who don’t know cup is leading technology company and business spend management we help our customers source and procure and process invoice pro invoice payments. And

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Jeff Collins: really, from from the very far upstream end of the process all the way to the to the point of payment coupons delivering value to our customers.

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: Terrific! Well, glad to have you both. So let’s dive in with a little bit of a kind of backdrop. As to you know, why is this webinar today so important. What’s going on in B 2 B sales? Why is selling with value so critical?

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: As we move forward into 2024. So

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: you know, with all the technology advancements. It seems as if sellers are getting even less face time with buyers than ever before. Only 5% of buyers selling, you know, in the buying process is spent with a seller which is down considerably from some of the earlier research we’ve seen in other years. And buyers are now 70% of the way through

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: their process before engaging a seller. So all the more reason why, when sellers engage, they really need to make it count.

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: Also what we’re seeing from the research. This is from the rain group. Roi and business cases are critical in moving the needle. 66% of buyers say it’s critical. But yet only 16% of sellers are able to make an effective Roi case. So there is a dramatic gap

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: in the expectations of buyers and what sellers are delivering. And then also, we’re seeing that 56% are still stuck stuck at the dreaded no decision. It’s prospective customers who just wind up going dark. So that has not improved over the years. And then, as we move forward here.

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: we’ve got some additional research that actually, mediafly did, showing that the high performing organizations are actually 19% more likely to have a value selling methodology

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: than the lower performers. We’ve also seen from Gartner that value assessments are actually the top ranked piece of content to improve buyer confidence.

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: which is also very interesting. And then also, in terms of you know, business value assessments, right? The higher performing organizations, 38% more likely

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: to leverage business value assessments than the lower performers, and then, lastly, the higher performers are 30, 37% more likely to track their success through the use of content and data and insights, and the high performers are defined as those that are actually achieving their goals. So with this, as the backdrop, let’s dive into this and talk about

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: you know, what are some of the common sales objections that you’re hearing today in your travel? So, Julie, let’s start with you, and then we’ll jump over to Jeff. What are some of those top objections that are coming up today?

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Julie Thomas: Well, the the objection always seems to boil down to price. And how? What the investment is that you’re making. And I think there’s 2 root causes for that objection. Number one.

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Julie Thomas: as you said.

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Julie Thomas: sales is hard. Well, I really think buying has become hard. You’ve got so many people involved in the process

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Julie Thomas: trying to get consensus, and some of these people internally, in your own or in there. The buying organization

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Julie Thomas: couldn’t agree on what pizza to order for lunch, let alone what software tool to purchase to advance their business. So so sometimes that pricing objection comes out of. Are you really able to differentiate your solution, to understand the incremental value that cruise only to you, and not just to the category?

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Julie Thomas: And then I also think in certain situations we see there’s 2 sales I have to win in my category. I have to be the best sales methodology.

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Julie Thomas: That you’re gonna consider. But then I have to help you, as the buyer

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Julie Thomas: build the case, to stand up to somebody who’s sitting in a boardroom and deciding, hey, am I gonna do sales methodology? Or am I gonna automate some of my financial processes, and which one gets the bigger bang for my buck. So

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Julie Thomas: so I think value has become much more complicated. It’s not just is there value? It’s how much value. And how does that compare to all the other buying decisions that are buying for the resources that we have.

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: Yeah, agreed. Budgets are tighter. So you know, value becomes way more important. And then you, you make such an important point. This whole building consensus in the deals is really pivotal. There’s so many different stakeholders, right? We’ve seen the research between 15, and maybe even 20 in some of these enterprise deals. How do we, as sellers, build consensus among that group?

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: And get them all pointed in the right direction toward you know, signing off on a deal so super good points. There, Julie, what about you, Jeff? What are you saying?

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Jeff Collins: Yeah. So II think joy makes a good point around Price, and I think the problem is that

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Jeff Collins: it is difficult for buyers to differentiate on their own

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Jeff Collins: the the various options for solving a particular problem, or taking advantage of an opportunity. In. In some of your statistics that you share at the very beginning, Dan, around. They’re doing a lot of their own research. They’re spending less time with the potential partner to help them take advantage of their opportunities.

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Jeff Collins: I think there’s a there’s a misperception on the part of buyers that they know what they they think they know what they need to know in order to make an informed decision the kinds of objections. And I’m gonna use coop as an example of the kinds of objections we get. There’s certainly a wide range of things we can talk about. But Cup is a platform

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Jeff Collins: and a lot of our customers. Have a specific problem that they want to solve.

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Jeff Collins: But and and they they come for very focused on a specific problem.

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Jeff Collins: So let’s say, it’s they, wanna they wanna

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Jeff Collins: gain some efficiencies in in terms of generating contracts. And so they go looking for a contract life cycle management solution.

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Jeff Collins: thinking if I can just get better at that particular

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Jeff Collins: function will solve our problems. And what they’re not necessarily thinking about is is the value that could accrue from having taking a holistic look, a transformational look at their opportunity. And so the objection we often get is, hey, look, we just wanna solve one specific problem.

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Jeff Collins: We don’t. We’re not trying to boil the ocean, we’re coming back to them and saying is, but engage with us in a meaningful conversation around where your opportunities are from a business value, perspective. And what you might find out.

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Jeff Collins: and quite frankly based on our own research is absolutely true, is that

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Jeff Collins: if you take this sort of transformational approach, you realize the value of solving the problems that are associated with some siloed activity, like generating contracts. But then, because you have a platform that you actually end up with greater value than if you would just solve each individual problem. You end up with this sort of

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Jeff Collins: synergistic value of having complete visibility across a whole

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Jeff Collins: for a transactional flow, if you will, and until you break into the value conversation, you really start engaging with the customer in a partnership fashion to understand where value could occur, that all too often. There’s the objection is simply, Hey, we just wanna solve one problem. And we’re not really trying to think about

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Jeff Collins: from a value perspective. What could we do for our organization?

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Jeff Collins: I don’t know, Julie, if that resonates with you, but that’s certainly something that we see.

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Julie Thomas: Oh, I definitely we we see that as well. And

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Julie Thomas: and the challenge with buyers right now is they don’t know what they don’t know

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Julie Thomas: and I think that so so they identify this little sliver of the pie. And they become so focused on that they’re not necessarily able to self diagnose that there could be a broader application.

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Julie Thomas: and they come to you and say, just as you’re saying, which

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Julie Thomas: in many cases makes it hard to differentiate, because you’re looking at one little piece of the buy. I have a payroll client that has that. I mean, you don’t get a whole lot more commoditized than payroll, but they try to to sell, you know all the services that go around that and and it’s a challenge for them to differentiate when somebody just wants one thing.

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: Yeah, agreed you know we both talked a little bit.

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: but before the webinar on these stall deals and this whole notion of risk averse, you know, buyers that are risk averse. What can sellers do today to to help mitigate that and and move some of these deals along and and not fall into the 56% of pipeline that’s just stuck

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: stalled out

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: Jeff, what do you think about that?

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Jeff Collins: Th thanks. So I think this idea of being versus really important. And and

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Jeff Collins: what we see quite often is that individuals within a Co. Within a customer organization are low to make a decision on their own. Even in the case of maybe a silo solution, a point solution they still wanna build consensus within the organization.

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Jeff Collins: the, I think one of the biggest problems is that the the analyses that are conducted if they don’t actually dive into a more data driven approach right? If it’s if it’s at a high level

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Jeff Collins: and without really drilling down into

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Jeff Collins: what’s the probability of success? What are the I’m I’m gonna go a little bit deeper. But

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Jeff Collins: what are all the activities that we need to take place in order to to be successful and then talk through what those activities would be. You end up with. You end up with. I think, a lot of uncertainty within the customer organization. They’re not sure about change management. They’re not sure about ongoing support of, of, say, a technology solution. And these unknowns

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Jeff Collins: become a weight on the ability of a of a customer to make a decision. What we found at Cooper, and and the way that we’d like to engage with customers is, we asked them. Look.

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Jeff Collins: give us your data, give us your transactional data. Let us engage with you in a meaningful fashion, have meaningful conversations. We wanna move well past that 5% of the time. And we wanna spend as much time as possible to understand your environment, your situation, how likely you are to be successful. And then what we wanna do is, provide you with a risk adjusted rate of return that can be compared with your other investment opportunities. So you could make a really informed investment decision cause. Every Cfo has a list of

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Jeff Collins: investment investments that the organization would like to make. And the question is.

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Jeff Collins: how do you decide which ones? Where have a real roi versus which have this sort of fictitious pumped up roi based on either the vendor or vested interest within within the company. So

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Jeff Collins: the answer for me, and how you de-risk a project is, you become a partner with the, with the the vendor? Don’t, if you think of them as just trying to sell you something and not really helping you take advantage of opportunities.

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Jeff Collins: I think you’re always gonna suffer from that that uncertainty. And you’re gonna miss out a lot of really great opportunities to impact the organization in a positive way.

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: That’s great. Julie.

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: let’s talk a little bit about

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: speed right? And the why. Now you know, some of the research I’ve seen is that you know most sellers are good at asking questions right? Then it drops off a little bit, and their ability to kind of tie the benefits

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: to those strategic issues. But the biggest fall off is to get customers to act. Now. Why, now.

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: what can Sellers do today to try and speed deals along?

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Julie Thomas: Well, the number one thing that we see that sellers sometimes

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Julie Thomas: either forget

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Julie Thomas: or assume

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Julie Thomas: is what are when you talk about the strategic business imperatives associated with the company

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Julie Thomas: and and a potential prospect. Most of those are timeout. You know, we’re going to improve margins in 2024 or 2025.

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Julie Thomas: Very rarely have I ever heard a CEO say some day

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Julie Thomas: we’re gonna focus on this. And so when they can connect to the time bound nature of the strategic business imperatives, they can use that to create a timeline.

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Julie Thomas: and in that timeline focuses on value realization which creates urgency and momentum to take action. And what I see is most sales reps. Stop that timeline at implementation.

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Julie Thomas: You’re gonna sign a contract with us. We’re all gonna pop a bottle of champagne. Then I’m gonna kick off the project and everybody’s gonna be happy. They focus on implementation as opposed to value realization.

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Julie Thomas: But the subtle thing that’s also missing in a lot of this value. Conversation is, we know there’s a lot of things that do have roi that don’t get purchased. You could walk the halls of my business and identify some things that probably I could invest in tomorrow. That would would make a difference. But

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Julie Thomas: they’re not on my radar right now. and I’ve got

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Julie Thomas: bigger fish to fry if you might. Yeah, you know, if you if you will. So it’s not a matter of just having Roi. You’ve also got to align to the hearts and the motivation of those decision makers and get their attention. And we call that personal value. So all of this is business value, and there’s no question

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Julie Thomas: that it’s important it has to be there. But if I don’t also resonate to the buyers themselves about what gets them excited, I could miss an opportunity to be successful.

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: Yeah, I think that’s great Jeff on your side, how are you guys dealing with the personal value and being able to kind of, you know, pivot

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: by different committee members interests.

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Jeff Collins: Yeah, it’s a. It’s a great question. Julie’s point is really well made. It’s it’s one thing to to generate an Roi for the organization. But it’s much more important to align with the strategic objectives of that organization, and then also align with the personal objectives of the people that you’re selling to and within coupa. We spend a lot of time selling to to finance. That’s they tend to own

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Jeff Collins: the the the the business problems that that coup addresses. However, you can’t sell a technology solution without dealing with the it side of the of the house and it I think

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Jeff Collins: all too often we think of. We don’t

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Jeff Collins: talk about the values it. I’m using it as an example of Julie’s point. What are what are the what is it that motivates it. And how does how does in my case, Cooper? How does cupa create value for the CIO or the director of it? Right? The the people that are responsible

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Jeff Collins: for maintaining systems to make sure that the business runs well, there we do have a value proposition. We do have a way of impacting their day to day, and perhaps even align with the way that they’re compensated. And I think that that

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Jeff Collins: understanding those personas, understanding what motivates those personas has to be part of your value message in order to be successful.

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Jeff Collins: If you don’t align with those personas even the ones you perhaps are not comfortable. Talking to

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Jeff Collins: the probability of success goes way down.

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: Yeah, agreed. I mean, what we see is certainly the importance of strategic discovery. You know, we build that into a lot of the methodology and the tools that we create being able to pivot in a guided selling fashion, depending on who you’re meeting with and what’s important to them. And then, as you said, kind of positioning the value that’s gonna be important to that particular stakeholder.

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: so another interesting thing that’s happened since the pandemic is, we’ve seen way more senior executives and c suiteers involved in buying process and also in the selling process. So talk a little bit about

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: how we can use value to really have an impact

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: on someone from the C-suite. Julie, how about you to store it?

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Julie Thomas: Well, II think that is an interesting observation, you know, pre pandemic.

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Julie Thomas: When when 90% of our interactions were face to face in many cases, you know, you went to the meeting, and if the Executive couldn’t be there, they delegated right well, you know. Now it’s like I I’m involved, cause I can be cause everything’s, you know, on a, on a zoom call or teams call, or something like that.

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Julie Thomas: So I think the the key issue is now

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Julie Thomas: the the key to any of these large, complex

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Julie Thomas: buying committees is getting insight to the individuals involved in the purchase, because the reality is that any of these committees I defy any sales. Rep to say, I know exactly who the main influencer is. I can pinpoint exactly who the saboteur is, and there will be one somewhere.

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Julie Thomas: There’s gonna be, you know.

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Julie Thomas: Ask her the gru, the grouch saying, No, no, no, we can’t do this.

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Julie Thomas: And to also mitigate what I call the yeah. But syndrome. Yeah, that was a great Roy, but we’re a little different here, and then they discount the Roi, and it’s not motivating. It’s working against us. We need to understand that. So the key is, how do we get some insight to them? And I think sales reps have to be

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Julie Thomas: courageous

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Julie Thomas: in finding ways to interact both

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Julie Thomas: with the buying committee as a whole and one on one.

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Julie Thomas: Sometimes it’s just a one on one chat during

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Julie Thomas: the zoom call where you’re asking that senior executive, hey? Is this resonating with you? Is there anything in addition that you’re worried about and trying to leverage different ways to communicate, to build, trust and get greater insight because it’s all about what they think.

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Julie Thomas: not what they even say.

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: Yeah 100. And I think you even wrote in your book about that, you know, you really have to think like an executive

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in order to go into this conversation.

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: Right? And what are? What do they care about what are their strategic initiatives, and they don’t want. Here’s the thing that we’ve learned. The the C-suite does not wanna sit through a discovery session.

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and go through an interrogation.

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: They want to get right down to business. They want to know you’ve done the research, and they want to be taught something new. you know they they want you to come in and and and ask the tough questions. But then, you know, lay it on the line about what they might be doing

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: wrong, you know, and then talk about your own solution. So it’s a very interesting balance, Jeff. What about you on the kind of C-suite

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: engagement side.

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Jeff Collins: Yeah. So

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Jeff Collins: I think

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Jeff Collins: for for us the

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Jeff Collins: we we don’t want to. We don’t want to sell a tactical solution.

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Jeff Collins: We don’t wanna just sell solution that lets you process invoices that. Well, that’s that’s important, functional

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Jeff Collins: sort of aspect to what we do.

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Jeff Collins: We wanna we wanna be a transformational partner. We wanna be a strategic partner with you. We wanna deliver

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Jeff Collins: a solution that helps you achieve your business goals. And so

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Jeff Collins: once and and quite frankly, if you, if you can’t get to those C level executives, you will be commoditized, and you will constantly be competing on price. You will not be competing on what really matters. And and and this is kind of what we started right, Julie, where we started talking about price, what we should be talking about is value. That’s that’s what the decision should be made on, not on price. If you find yourself in a pricing conversation, you weren’t talking to the right people in the customer organization.

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Jeff Collins: Right?

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Jeff Collins: So for me.

00:24:19.270 –> 00:24:29.770
Jeff Collins: you have to. You have to understand those personas. You have to understand what motivates them what they care about the the way in which they’re compensated.

00:24:30.030 –> 00:24:35.900
Jeff Collins: what they’re trying to achieve with their careers. And you need to figure out how you can be a partner

00:24:35.920 –> 00:24:43.480
Jeff Collins: to deliver for them personally as well as for the organization, because, quite frankly, those 2 things, you know, are reinforce one another.

00:24:43.530 –> 00:24:44.610
Jeff Collins: when

00:24:44.740 –> 00:24:52.870
Jeff Collins: when we talk to we spend a lot of time talking to Cfos And for Cfo the

00:24:53.310 –> 00:24:58.679
Jeff Collins: we changed a lot of the the from the way we used to talk to the way

00:24:58.770 –> 00:25:09.319
Jeff Collins: we talk today. It has changed significantly because we do want to be that strategic partner. So we’re talking about optimizing cash

00:25:09.370 –> 00:25:13.550
Jeff Collins: as opposed to reducing costs. We’re talking about

00:25:13.820 –> 00:25:24.069
Jeff Collins: something beyond just savings. Right? We’re talking about the bigger picture issues. Well, we oftentimes translate the Roi into something just tfo we care about.

00:25:24.350 –> 00:25:27.729
Jeff Collins: I was working with a very large retailer, for example.

00:25:27.790 –> 00:25:45.409
Jeff Collins: and we’re talking about saving. We originally start talking about saving the money, and they kind of roll their eyes. Yeah, yeah, you’re gonna save us money. Everybody so wants to save us money. And then then we’re dove into the data, built out the case and set and translated from savings, because on the margin it didn’t. It did probably didn’t really move the needle for them. To

00:25:45.730 –> 00:26:10.539
Jeff Collins: how much profit you generate per store? How many stores would you have to open in order to generate the same bottom line impact that makes it real because they know they have. They have limited opportunity to open new retail locations. Right? So again, I I’m a bit all over the place. I apologize for that. But the point really, I think I’m trying to make is that figure out what motivates that person. Translate your message into a message that will resonate.

00:26:11.190 –> 00:26:22.590
Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: Yeah, I love that. And that gets us into kind of the next phase of this. And also folks feel free to to put some questions in the chat. We’ll be doing questions in about, probably, you know, 5 or 8 min.

00:26:22.960 –> 00:26:31.319
Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: To close things out. But let’s talk about execution a little bit, you know. It just seems that this value selling is not

00:26:31.360 –> 00:26:33.610
Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: easily adopted all the time.

00:26:33.810 –> 00:26:54.230
Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: By sellers. So, Julie, what have you seen? What are some of the ways that companies are getting buy in across the organization for value selling? Because where we’ve seen it successful is where a the senior management is bought in, there’s almost a culture behind it, but that’s not always the case. So what are you seeing out there?

00:26:54.460 –> 00:27:04.569
Julie Thomas: Well, I would agree with you. I do think it is not a just a sales function. I think value selling is a

00:27:04.780 –> 00:27:20.440
Julie Thomas: how you think about your customers, how you think about your engagement strategy, and it is an organizational approach. It’s not just sales anymore. You know, everybody’s in sales to a certain extent.

00:27:20.500 –> 00:27:29.439
Julie Thomas: And and that’s part of it. Number 2, you know, sales is an interesting profession, because there are times when a sales rep

00:27:29.740 –> 00:27:45.029
Julie Thomas: cannot do value selling at all, do everything wrong, and then still close the biggest deal in the Customers Company’s history, because the buyer did it in spite of them, as opposed to because of them. So I think we need to recognize

00:27:45.850 –> 00:27:53.360
Julie Thomas: how we motivate salespeople and just like our customers, need a reason to change. So to salespeople

00:27:53.510 –> 00:27:56.730
Julie Thomas: because new behaviors make them uncomfortable.

00:27:56.830 –> 00:27:58.569
even if it’s this whole.

00:27:59.570 –> 00:28:11.319
Julie Thomas: this whole, you know, identifying the buying team and asking second, Third Level questions about who are all the people? What are their roles?

00:28:11.390 –> 00:28:22.599
Julie Thomas: And and I still hear from some salespeople. I’m afraid of offending the person who is telling me information. If I ask them some of those questions, and so they

00:28:22.630 –> 00:28:44.749
Julie Thomas: they, you know, we all have blind spots. We all get in our own way, and we’re all afraid of of of certain things. So I think there’s a number of things, I think, organizations that do approach it and do a lot to recognize success, and early indicators get a lot more momentum earlier, and they get that flywheel going.

00:28:45.030 –> 00:28:50.609
Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: Yeah, no, II love that. Jeff, what about you at cupa.

00:28:50.800 –> 00:28:55.670
Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: how? How are you driving? Kind of buy in to to value selling there?

00:28:56.980 –> 00:29:01.579
Jeff Collins: So values value selling is actually

00:29:01.800 –> 00:29:11.220
Jeff Collins: really core to our DNA, when we first started as a software company, we were competing with very large companies that had all the bells and whistles.

00:29:11.850 –> 00:29:16.040
Jeff Collins: and we spent a lot of time talking to prospective customers, saying, Look.

00:29:18.000 –> 00:29:40.049
Jeff Collins: these these organizations, or these these alternative solutions, I should say, have a lot of feature function. But are they delivering value, because in our in our space everybody already owns something right? And so you would go in. You would do. You would understand from a from a Kpi perspective how the organization was performing. And then and say, Look, you, have, you have a solution that has

00:29:40.560 –> 00:29:45.139
Jeff Collins: what really robust functionality. But it’s not delivering any value to you.

00:29:45.300 –> 00:30:10.859
Jeff Collins: Right? And wouldn’t it be? And and for us it’s about, how do you capture it? As much spend as possible, you know, capture, the spend, you can’t actually control the spend. You can’t source. You can’t do a lot of things that that great value for your organization, and the reason that that the the other competing solutions weren’t delivering the value that they could have delivered is they were difficult to use, and people didn’t like using them. So the goal was to say, Look, we are, we are hyper focused on usability.

00:30:11.190 –> 00:30:15.559
Jeff Collins: If the the main thing we wanna do is capture all that spend

00:30:15.740 –> 00:30:43.099
Jeff Collins: and that will deliver value. So our salespeople bought into that message because that was what was working in the marketplace, and we grew very rapidly because we hyper focused on value. Today, we’re more robust organization. We are the feature function organization that we weren’t say 10 years ago when I started. So we to reinforce value. We look at deals and the quality of the of the sale, based on

00:30:43.730 –> 00:30:44.530
Jeff Collins: the

00:30:44.640 –> 00:30:55.660
Jeff Collins: price that we generate relative to the value that the customer expects to get. And so a quality deal is a deal where we’re realizing a a sort of set

00:30:55.750 –> 00:31:05.209
Jeff Collins: fraction of the value that’s expected to be delivered. And, by the way, this is value that the customer signs up for this isn’t just some. This isn’t sales value. This is

00:31:05.570 –> 00:31:29.219
Jeff Collins: a Roi that the customer agrees to right. And so it’s for for us growing the organization and growing a a annual contract value acv for us, it’s really about building the understanding of value and having the customer have confidence in that value, and a willingness to to pay a fair price for the fair delivery of a return.

00:31:30.270 –> 00:31:39.179
Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: Yeah, for sure, I agree. This whole, you know. Notion of co-creating value is so important. Right? So if you work well with a prospect

00:31:39.340 –> 00:31:55.389
Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: and they help you put together that business case. Then they’re bought in, you know, and that’s one of the things that you know. Maybe it’s not widely known. It’s not all about you delivering an Roi business case, but it’s it’s a collaborative effort. And really working closely.

00:31:55.560 –> 00:32:11.999
Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: with your prospect. So I know we’ve got a bunch of questions. Maybe we can jump into that. But let’s end with this whole kind of post sale value. And how do we keep customers? Cause, you know?

00:32:12.020 –> 00:32:18.619
Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: renewals are the new demand generation is something I heard recently. So, Jeff.

00:32:18.840 –> 00:32:26.389
Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: how how are you all handling post sale value, keeping customers versus getting them? And how is that different?

00:32:26.480 –> 00:32:28.929
Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: Then you know the presale approach?

00:32:29.090 –> 00:32:43.769
Jeff Collins: Yeah. So my standard line is as a saus company. We live and die with renewals and referrals right? And if we don’t get to renewal, you know you don’t have that that beneficial through spiral flywheel value.

00:32:43.900 –> 00:32:50.130
Jeff Collins: when it comes to the quantification of realized value a couple of years ago.

00:32:50.240 –> 00:32:54.589
Jeff Collins: We approached our product development people and said, Look.

00:32:54.900 –> 00:32:57.910
Jeff Collins: what we’d really like to do is embed

00:32:58.420 –> 00:33:00.879
Jeff Collins: value realization in the platform.

00:33:00.900 –> 00:33:14.109
Jeff Collins: We want people to be able to go into a set of dashboards, and in real time understand what their investment in cupa is delivering for them. And so what we’ve done is we’ve created those value dashboards

00:33:14.110 –> 00:33:37.429
Jeff Collins: where, when a customer is implemented, we can input their baseline information. Understand? Sort of what the current state was. And then, as transactions flow through the platform, we can capture the realized valley, whether that’s increasing the amount of spend under management or realizing savings from sourcing activity where transactions are

00:33:37.860 –> 00:33:52.000
Jeff Collins: are being aligned with the Contractual pricing that’s been negotiated. So we’re actually quantifying, as those transactions occur against the contract. How much savings is being realized. I think

00:33:52.630 –> 00:33:58.220
Jeff Collins: if if it’s possible for you to quantify value, realize value in that way

00:33:58.520 –> 00:34:00.649
Jeff Collins: through the system that’s optimal.

00:34:00.660 –> 00:34:07.130
Jeff Collins: However, it’s not always possible. Sometimes the the the measures of value

00:34:07.190 –> 00:34:26.610
Jeff Collins: are not easily captured in in software, and therefore you sort of have to take more ad hoc approach to working with customers, and we have a customer success organization that is dedicated to doing that work as well. So it’s it’s sort of a a multi pronged approach to quantification of value. But

00:34:26.909 –> 00:34:31.219
Jeff Collins: then, the one thing I would say more than anything else is, you have to commit to that

00:34:31.330 –> 00:34:59.810
Jeff Collins: all too often what we see in the real risk to value realization is the shiny object syndrome. Where people get excited about a project, they they they go through the process of making a decision. They implement that everybody shakes hands. They pop the pork, as Julie said, and then they walk away feeling like, Hey, we saw that problem. Let’s go on. And that is not the way that you actually optimize and maximize your return on your investment and and technology. Right? You do it by making it

00:35:00.180 –> 00:35:12.620
Jeff Collins: a core competency within the organization that you are going to adopt. You are going to. You are going to optimize that solution, and you are going to measure on an ongoing basis the return to the to the organization from their investment.

00:35:13.540 –> 00:35:24.659
Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: Absolutely, Julie, how about you in terms of keeping customers? Yeah. So so couple things. So prior to joining value selling. A number of years ago, I grew up at Gartner Group

00:35:24.660 –> 00:35:52.259
Julie Thomas: long before Sas was even a thing, and so I was doing Acv before Acv. Had renewals before Acv. Was cool, if you will, and what we learned, I think, is a couple of things. Number one, you’ve got to treat renewals with the same rigor of qualification as new business cause. The probability that the same people that have to sign off on the renewal. Are the people that bought it in the first place in today’s world are slim to none.

00:35:52.350 –> 00:36:10.269
Julie Thomas: especially if you’ve had a multiyear agreement. So you’ve gotta continue to do that. The second thing that I think often plays into renewals is experience, because every competitor is calling on that account trying to trying to unhook you.

00:36:10.510 –> 00:36:15.050
Julie Thomas: and they’re trying to give them a reason to change. And you’ve got to

00:36:15.360 –> 00:36:24.680
Julie Thomas: to now provide more reason to stay. And yes, I agree with Jeff absolutely. If you have the ability to capture the value and get them bought into that

00:36:24.810 –> 00:36:28.790
Julie Thomas: cause because change is hard and switching is risky.

00:36:28.950 –> 00:36:50.219
Julie Thomas: I think that that’s important, but really focusing on that customer and their experience, you know, for years at Gardner we would be surprised on some renewals. Well, you know they they they re attended all of our events. They were calling the analyst. They seem to open the emails and read, read our research, and then when Push came to shop, they didn’t.

00:36:50.420 –> 00:36:56.309
Julie Thomas: They didn’t renew, because maybe they had bought for a project. and that project was done.

00:36:56.410 –> 00:37:14.770
Julie Thomas: You know, I rolled out my desktop strategy. I don’t need that service anymore. Or what have you? So it’s really continually finding reasons for them to stay as as well and making sure that experience is good. I’ve actually heard people say right now, because of the economic uncertainty

00:37:14.920 –> 00:37:23.179
Julie Thomas: a couple of our clients have told us our pipeline, we thought was really robust because we were eating into competitive market share.

00:37:23.290 –> 00:37:35.839
Julie Thomas: And because of the economic uncertainty people are saying, you know what I’m gonna stay with the devil, I know, rather than switch to the devil. I don’t. Even if II really really want to, because switching is hard.

00:37:36.380 –> 00:37:39.650
Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: Yeah, there’s that whole risk thing again. Right?

00:37:39.980 –> 00:37:46.680
Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: very, for sure. Yeah. And you know, pre sales, we’re fighting against the the status quo

00:37:46.740 –> 00:37:53.280
Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: and then post sales. The status quo is our friend. Right? So we have to position the value messaging differently.

00:37:53.550 –> 00:38:06.210
Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: And certainly the calculation. So very excellent conversation. Thank you both for for a great session today we’ve got a bunch of questions. So let me try and go through a few here.

00:38:06.220 –> 00:38:20.039
Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: There’s one for Julie. You mentioned speeding deals along. It reps focused on the implementation timeline, not time to value. Can you elaborate what you mean by that? And why that’s such a concern.

00:38:20.980 –> 00:38:38.529
Julie Thomas: Well, I think it’s a great tactic for value selling sales, professionals, or revenue professionals to really keep in mind that the value. Realization is the ultimate business motivation for them to take action with you. In the first place. So are we

00:38:38.550 –> 00:38:58.950
Julie Thomas: using that during the sales cycle to paint a really good picture for the prospect and buying committee to understand what that’s gonna look like when that value is realized, how that’s gonna feel what the timeframe is gonna be look for that, and focus them on that

00:38:59.080 –> 00:39:08.370
Julie Thomas: which is their motivating outcome as opposed to on getting the purchase, order and implementation which is the grind

00:39:08.470 –> 00:39:16.929
Julie Thomas: right? And and so it’s a tactic to really use value realization as the motivation to take action

00:39:17.100 –> 00:39:28.719
Julie Thomas: throughout all of your interactions. And we start that process from the very beginning, by understanding the time bound nature of the strategic business imperatives that they’re focused on.

00:39:29.170 –> 00:39:57.890
Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: Yeah, agreed. I mean, we see companies bringing in the delivery teams and the customer success teams and start to paint the picture of what it’s gonna be like when they get on the other side of those challenges and not be myopically focused on, you know. Let’s get the deal signed and see you later. Right? Great. Okay. Another question. Can you give a few different examples of different industries and different company sizes that achieved significant roi

00:39:58.040 –> 00:40:03.069
Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: with the tool? Well, if we’re talking about our tool

00:40:03.090 –> 00:40:09.009
Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: or our platform. I mean, we’ve been at it for for a long time. We’ve got over a hundred customers.

00:40:09.090 –> 00:40:21.150
Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: From the very big enterprise customers to some of the up and growing fast paced unicorns like data bricks and snowflake and what we’ve been able to do is get

00:40:21.260 –> 00:40:32.780
Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: many of these customers, give them the ability to scale value across the organization. So by leveraging interactive tools, right that help the sellers with a guided discovery.

00:40:32.940 –> 00:40:51.319
Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: Some value, focused messaging and storytelling, and then giving them the ability to quantify value without potentially, without the help of a of a Jeff and his team. That’s where we’ve had the most impact in helping companies grow revenue. So we’ve seen examples of companies

00:40:51.420 –> 00:41:07.889
Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: 6 and 7 times X, their win rate. Competitive win rate when they use the value tool versus, not we’ve seen selling prices increase. We’ve seen cycle time decrease. So having something that gives them the ability to pivot

00:41:07.900 –> 00:41:12.470
Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: and be nimble. We’ve had a lot of great success with so

00:41:12.750 –> 00:41:24.409
Jeff Collins: great question.

00:41:25.080 –> 00:41:38.750
Jeff Collins: one of the. So we we start talking about, how do you make a value selling part of a a sales team’s? DNA? We’ve been able to do with the tool that that we’ve built with you is

00:41:38.870 –> 00:42:02.439
Jeff Collins: first of all, scale my organization because there’s no way that we’re just a handful of consultants distributed globally could touch all the deals across all the different market. So the tools then used in order to generate an understanding of value of of an roi, if you will, but then also from a granular perspective, how that roi would be created, and what it’s allowed us to do is not only

00:42:02.440 –> 00:42:25.080
Jeff Collins: to to utilize the sales team as an extended value, consulting organization, but then also as an enablement tool to get both our our sales professionals to understand how Cooper creates measurable business value, but then also utilize the tool in a customer facing situation, to educate the customer on how to think about how the solution will create value.

00:42:26.660 –> 00:42:29.999
Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: Thank you. Jeff. Yeah, I really appreciate that.

00:42:30.810 –> 00:42:35.280
Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: let’s see here. You touched on over 50% of deals going cold

00:42:35.420 –> 00:42:42.799
Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: or even prospects ghosting you. How do you prevent this from happening in the first place, or rescue a deal that has gone cold?

00:42:43.220 –> 00:42:44.920
Julie Thomas: Who wants to take that one

00:42:44.950 –> 00:43:02.480
Julie Thomas: I’ll I’ll take. I’ll take a stab at it. I wish I had a silver bullet on this one. I’d write a book, and that, and retire. But the reality is often people ghost us because there’s they. They haven’t made the connection of what’s in it for them

00:43:02.520 –> 00:43:19.219
Julie Thomas: both business value or personal value, and and everything’s all about the sales. Rep. It’s a my need. My, III need to get this done, or I need to have this next meeting, or I need to pitch this to you and

00:43:19.260 –> 00:43:35.499
Julie Thomas: And and it’s it’s not focused on the customer’s needs. So one of the ways to proactively mitigate, that is, by focusing on them, not you, the timelines that you build. It’s not your timeline.

00:43:35.960 –> 00:43:43.850
Julie Thomas: It’s their timeline that you’re they’re telling you when they can agree to some of these milestones, and if they can’t

00:43:44.210 –> 00:44:00.650
Julie Thomas: tell you about some of these milestones, they that might be a little red flag that this isn’t as far along or as real as you might thought it would be, but it’s working. Their timeline. Not forcing yours is is the key to some of that.

00:44:02.470 –> 00:44:14.010
Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: Yeah, that’s a great answer. Yeah. And I think it’s differentiation. In these initial calls. There was a Stat a few years ago. I haven’t seen it updated, but it said, only 17% of sellers get a second meeting

00:44:14.190 –> 00:44:36.710
Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: because they just they just don’t deliver enough value. So differentiation we’ve seen content being huge today in in differentiating. And you know, content is is the twelfth man out there? Not only what you present, but what you follow up and send out afterward that you know the buyers can engage and share with their team.

00:44:36.940 –> 00:44:50.399
Julie Thomas: So DD can I build on that for 1 s, you know I’ve read articles that discovery is dead, but the reality is in early meetings, early sale cycles. Discovery has to be mutual.

00:44:50.790 –> 00:44:59.600
Julie Thomas: You can’t just interrogate the customer. You have to also give them enough to entice them to continue the conversation.

00:44:59.740 –> 00:45:10.819
Julie Thomas: because while you’re trying to determine whether or not, they’re fit for you. They’re doing the same thing, and I think some sales reps. Forget that discovery is mutual.

00:45:11.050 –> 00:45:20.110
Julie Thomas: and you have to add as much value and give as much as you take in that initial meeting. If you expect them to agree to, people spend their time before they spend their money.

00:45:20.780 –> 00:45:23.470
Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: That’s a great point. I agree, a hundred percent.

00:45:23.600 –> 00:45:34.560
Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: Let’s see many motions around value selling revolve around cost reductions or reduce risk. How does this change for helping customers create products in new markets.

00:45:37.240 –> 00:45:45.590
Julie Thomas: Well, I’ll take. I’ll take that because I work with sales and revenue organizations like mediafly. Often the business case

00:45:45.620 –> 00:46:14.330
Julie Thomas: for value. Selling a sales. Methodology is what is my Rev. Incremental top line revenue gonna be? As a result of this initiative? There might be some cost savings aspects to it, but often it’s like, How do I grow my deal size? How do I open a new market? How do I sell the breadth of my product line, and they’re measuring that in incremental sales to justify the investment, to train and develop their teams.

00:46:14.330 –> 00:46:19.750
Julie Thomas: So the key to value working for you is to understanding.

00:46:19.790 –> 00:46:26.829
Julie Thomas: hey? If you’re successful with the product or service that you sell to your prospect, how will you measure

00:46:27.590 –> 00:46:29.010
Julie Thomas: that success?

00:46:29.670 –> 00:46:43.340
Julie Thomas: How will you know that that made a difference in your business and letting them tell you the metrics, and then facilitating the conversation on how you could impact that, as opposed to telling them what the metric might be.

00:46:44.000 –> 00:46:47.100
Jeff Collins: I well, II would, Jeff, I would add

00:46:47.360 –> 00:47:01.319
Jeff Collins: so if you’re trying to penetrate new markets or bring new new products to market. Those are those things require investment. And one of the. So when you start thinking about values cost savings. Maybe you’re freeing up some

00:47:01.400 –> 00:47:20.480
Jeff Collins: cash in that fashion that can be then used to invest in something else. That’s true. But for us it’s also thinking about, how do you optimize cash within the business? And so there may be opportunities right to create a cash management benefit, freeing up that cash to one time benefit, but they can be quite substantial. So going back to the example of translating

00:47:20.490 –> 00:47:45.830
Jeff Collins: the value arguments into something that’s meaningful for an organization for a customer organization was working with a company that wanted to bring new products to market. And when we were looking to do that through acquisition. They were looking to to find some new ways to augment their existing revenue streams, and so we take a look in their in their financial files and look at the

00:47:45.830 –> 00:47:56.229
Jeff Collins: 4 acquisitions they’d made the year before, and one of them was about 70 million dollar acquisition, and via an analysis of their data. We showed them that we could free up

00:47:56.410 –> 00:48:01.990
Jeff Collins: more than 70 million dollars worth of cash, and they could have been added yet another acquisition.

00:48:02.210 –> 00:48:08.880
Jeff Collins: Those acquisitions de-risk, the business generate bottom line benefit to the business. So

00:48:09.310 –> 00:48:11.049
Jeff Collins: what I would argue is that

00:48:11.140 –> 00:48:21.019
Jeff Collins: even in a in a world where you’re talking about savings. I think if you cast a broader, not really think about all the ways in which you create value, here’s you need to be a little bit creative. You need to be a little bit thoughtful. But if you

00:48:21.090 –> 00:48:31.689
Jeff Collins: broaden that net, what you’re gonna find is there are a lot of ways that you can help customers who are trying to expand their business through new product development or or new market toll.

00:48:32.500 –> 00:48:42.429
Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: Love it. Well, I think we got through all the questions. I wanna thank both Julie and Jeff. Julie and Jeff. How do folks connect with you? What’s the best way to get in touch.

00:48:43.530 –> 00:49:01.849
Julie Thomas: I’ll I’ll start with that. Thank you. Thank you. It was a pleasure to be here best way. Certainly I’m easy to find on Linkedin, or I hope I’m easy to find on Linkedin, Julie Thomas, and value selling or send me an email at Julie thomas@valueselling.com would love to hear from you

00:49:02.410 –> 00:49:14.499
Jeff Collins: great honestly. My answer is the exact same. But my email address and I will happily respond, is jeff.com

00:49:15.000 –> 00:49:28.280
Jeff Collins: great. II do appreciate, Dan. You and all the folks that signed up today really enjoyed the conversation. Thanks, Julie, you’re so welcome. I want to thank everyone that signed up

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: if you’d like to follow up with me. D. 6, myth@www.mediafly.com. I’m on linkedin. I’ve also got a podcast

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Dan Sixsmith, SVP Value: Sales is king, and we do a weekly blog called value stories feel free to message me there. But I really appreciate the great questions and your participation today and wanna again. Thank Jeff and Julie for being with us, and I wish you all a great rest of the day. Thanks for joining today.